[Allpartners.music360-beta] "AI is not theft"

Thu Jun 12 11:33:59 CEST 2025

Thanks, Roel.

For me it’s ok. We normally cite the partner in the posts, but if you think that’s better I agree.

Best wishes,
______________________
María de Miguel Molina
Catedrática de Organización de Empresas (Full Professor)
Universitat Politecnica de Valencia
mademi at omp.upv.es

> El 12 jun 2025, a las 11:21, Roel Wieringa <roel at thevalueengineers.nl> escribió:
> 
> Doing a post on this topic does not mean that it has become part of our research. Posts are not deliverables; they are merely meant to draw attention online. And I do not think posts present an official project opinion. If that were the case there should have been an editorial board who would review all posts on behalf of the project. None of us is supposed to agree with all posts. 
> 
> That said, I did notice only recently that posts are not signed by the author. I think we never discussed that, and my preference is that each post has its author named at the top.  We could even put a note at the bottom that the post represents the opinions and observations of the author, not of the project as a whole.
> 
> Later this year we will draw up policy recommendations for the EU and there we need to ensure that these are the recommendations of the project as a whole.
> 
> Would this distinction resolve the matter?
> Best regards,
> --Roel
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Frank Lucassen <Frank.Lucassen at bumastemra.nl>
>> Verzonden: donderdag 12 juni 2025 10:56
>> Aan: Ioan Kaes <ioan.kaes at aepo-artis.org>; Roel Wieringa
>> <roel at thevalueengineers.nl>
>> CC: allpartners.music360-beta at listserver.vu.nl
>> Onderwerp: RE: [Allpartners.music360-beta] "AI is not theft"
>> 
>> I fully agree with Ioan. Let stay focussed on our project goals. That already
>> hard enough.
>> 
>> 
>> Met vriendelijk groet,
>> Frank Lucassen
>> Business Development
>> T +31 (0)23 799 7221
>> M +31 (0)6 27 16 99 18
>> 
>> 
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Allpartners.music360-beta <allpartners.music360-beta-
>> bounces at listserver.vu.nl> Namens Ioan Kaes
>> Verzonden: dinsdag 10 juni 2025 23:02
>> Aan: Roel Wieringa <roel at thevalueengineers.nl>
>> CC: allpartners.music360-beta at listserver.vu.nl
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Allpartners.music360-beta] "AI is not theft"
>> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> This AI debate seems to be far removed from the core of our project. The
>> copyright vs AI debates concern large language models and that is not what
>> this project is working on.
>> 
>> Several partners to this project have outspoken positions on this topic. And
>> those do not always align. I would therefore advise to not have the Copyright
>> vs AI debate become part of this project.
>> 
>> The only place AI has in the Music360* project is its ability to improve data
>> management. Analysis and recommendations on that are welcome. Other
>> aspects of AI might interest us, but don’t need to be imported in this project.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> ioan
>> ....
>> 
>>> On 10 Jun 2025, at 21:32, Roel Wieringa <roel at thevalueengineers.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The assumption of Enrique Dans seems to be that gen-AI being trained on a
>> large set of songs is the same as a person who has listened to the same songs
>> as the gen-AI and then composes a song of their own.  But gen-AI generates
>> similar songs, where the kind of similarity is determined by the algorithm and
>> the prompt. That is not what a person does.
>>> 
>>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>> Van: María de Miguel Molina <mademi at omp.upv.es>
>>>> Verzonden: dinsdag 10 juni 2025 19:51
>>>> Aan: Roel Wieringa <roel at thevalueengineers.nl>
>>>> CC: allpartners.music360-beta at listserver.vu.nl
>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Allpartners.music360-beta] "AI is not theft"
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Roel,
>>>> 
>>>> The next UPV post is about this debate ;-) …allow or reject…or maybe
>>>> a middle point.
>>>> 
>>>> The option to remove copyright permission for AI platforms could be
>>>> controversial. By now, the European Union is reluctant to do it.
>>>> 
>>>> In the UK, the Government proposes to exclude copyright works in the
>>>> case of AI platforms (that need them to train their models). Then,
>>>> the House of Commons is in favour of allowing AI firms to use
>>>> artists' content without permission and compensation.
>>>> 
>>>> Against, the artists and the House of Lords request to add
>>>> transparency requirements and ensure copyright holders give
>>>> (informed) permission for their work to be used.
>>>> 
>>>> The reality is that some AI companies are quite opaque giving
>>>> information while others are trying to be transparent. I think that
>>>> some information of the process and trying to respect the authors
>>>> gives ethical value to these companies…but maybe I’m naive…
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> María
>>>> ______________________
>>>> María de Miguel Molina
>>>> Catedrática de Organización de Empresas (Full Professor) Universitat
>>>> Politecnica de Valencia mademi at omp.upv.es
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   El 10 jun 2025, a las 19:25, Roel Wieringa
>>>> <roel at thevalueengineers.nl> escribió:
>>>> 
>>>>   Folks,
>>>>   I guess not all of us agree with this point of view:
>>>> https://med/
>>>> ium.com%2Fenrique-dans%2Fai-is-not-theft-the-uk-just-got-it-right-&da
>>>> 
>> ta=05%7C02%7Cfrank.lucassen%40bumastemra.nl%7C87bdfa87673f4a229
>> 6c408d
>>>> 
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>> 5186142847
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>> ta=ajJDTpZpNPYJwbpXn2RCnibsh%2B9bCTeXt0bXfr3Pryo%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 28850f4c80a3.
>>>>   If we do not agree, what realistic alternative do we have?
>>>>   --Roel
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   Allpartners.music360-beta mailing list
>>>>   Allpartners.music360-beta at listserver.vu.nl
>>>> 
>>>> https://lis/
>>>> tserver.vu.nl%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fallpartners.music360-
>> beta&data=0
>>>> 
>> 5%7C02%7Cfrank.lucassen%40bumastemra.nl%7C87bdfa87673f4a2296c40
>> 8dda86
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
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